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Topic:  MAC Eliminates Divisions for Football

Topic:  MAC Eliminates Divisions for Football
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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  MAC Eliminates Divisions for Football
   Posted: 11/30/2023 2:19:40 PM 
Each pairing of teams will play a home & away every 3 year span while the rivals will continue playing every year. Expressed reason - Ensure the 2 best teams are in the Championship.

https://getsomemaction.com/news/2023/11/30/mac-establishe...

Last Edited: 11/30/2023 2:23:31 PM by Andrew Ruck

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Eliminates Divisions for Football
   Posted: 11/30/2023 2:24:03 PM 
Guess this is the new trendy thing to do. Well, if the B1G can have 18 in one big lump, why not 12 for the MAC? This will decrease fan interest, IMHO.

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ChiCat2018
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Eliminates Divisions for Football
   Posted: 11/30/2023 2:46:46 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Guess this is the new trendy thing to do. Well, if the B1G can have 18 in one big lump, why not 12 for the MAC? This will decrease fan interest, IMHO.


I don't see this decreasing fan experience one bit. Do you really get all excited to see Kent or Akron? The biggest concern I have is for the league expanding - now you need to get 3 teams to join so you can have a new 'pot'. Bold move by the MAC, curious as to why they didn't just make 1 big 'division' like they did for basketball
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Pete Chouteau
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Eliminates Divisions for Football
   Posted: 11/30/2023 2:52:11 PM 
Reduce fan interest from what, exactly?

What would the PAC-12 Championship Game be if Washington and Oregon were still in the North Division? Would fans be as interested?

The only downside on this is that the door opens to the silliness a 3-way tie in the Mountain West caused.

Divisions were good because they made geographic sense. Divisions were bad because the most natural line went between the I-75 rivals and protecting the rivalry was a hurdle the scheduling dude couldn't figure out for 20 years or whatever it's been.

With that being said, it's moving deck chairs.
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shabamon
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Eliminates Divisions for Football
   Posted: 11/30/2023 3:00:03 PM 
Ok.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Eliminates Divisions for Football
   Posted: 11/30/2023 3:41:07 PM 
My thinking via an example: In some years the MAC East has been woefully worse than the West. In those years there is still some fan interest in the East teams because relative to each other they are close and it might not be until the final few weeks that a clear winner emerges. If all these teams are buried in the middle of the pack or lower in the 12 team standings, these teams have nothing to shoot for, except, of course the ubiquitous "bowl eligibility."

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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Eliminates Divisions for Football
   Posted: 11/30/2023 4:12:14 PM 
I see the point, there could be less teams in contention by the time November rolls around. It will be tough to make the title game with more than 1 conference loss.

Andrew Ruck
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Pete Chouteau
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Eliminates Divisions for Football
   Posted: 11/30/2023 4:55:43 PM 
The last time this is true was 2014 -- dismissing the 6 game 2020 season.
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Eliminates Divisions for Football
   Posted: 11/30/2023 6:10:41 PM 
Got a feeling this is for ESPN's benefit more than anybody else's. Both races were pretty much decided with three weeks left. That made the mid-week MACtion games even less relevant than usual. Not that the new scheme would've helped where only three of the 12 teams have a legitimate shot at the championship game come November. But it's like adding MLB or NFL teams to the playoffs -- the powers that be feel a need to do SOMETHING to generate TV viewers, especially with the ESPN contract coming up for renewal in 2027.

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Eliminates Divisions for Football
   Posted: 11/30/2023 7:21:25 PM 
Pataskala wrote:
Got a feeling this is for ESPN's benefit more than anybody else's. Both races were pretty much decided with three weeks left. That made the mid-week MACtion games even less relevant than usual. Not that the new scheme would've helped where only three of the 12 teams have a legitimate shot at the championship game come November. But it's like adding MLB or NFL teams to the playoffs -- the powers that be feel a need to do SOMETHING to generate TV viewers, especially with the ESPN contract coming up for renewal in 2027.



Pretty sure 80% of the mid-week MAC games are just gamblers. Don't think the stakes they care about have anything to do with title game contention.
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M.D.W.S.T
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Eliminates Divisions for Football
   Posted: 11/30/2023 8:07:11 PM 
What’s the pod thing? What relevance does that hold? Any? I saw it on Instagram and most people are just getting jokes off. Can’t tell if it’s real or not.
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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Eliminates Divisions for Football
   Posted: 11/30/2023 8:56:42 PM 
Playing with the math here...An 8 game schedule with a guarantee to play all 11 opponents at least twice every 3 years. To accomplish that you need 22 of the 24 games in a 3 year period. This leaves 2 excess games.

They could just do 4 pods of 3 that play each other every year - NIU/WMU/CMU, Ball St/Miami/Ohio, BG/Toledo/Akron, Buffalo/Akron/Kent. Or they could just have the obvious protected rivalries and get creative with the other 1 game per 3 years.

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Casper71
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Eliminates Divisions for Football
   Posted: 11/30/2023 9:32:15 PM 
Agree with OCF. Historically the west has been stronger than the east. This year we would have probably been 4th 5th or 6th depending on games with the “West”. This should upgrade our schedule if we don’t have to play Akron and Kent every year.
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Eliminates Divisions for Football
   Posted: 12/1/2023 10:44:17 AM 
Per Chris Vannini of The Athletic, the scheduling pods are as follows:

Buffalo, Akron, Kent State
Ohio, Miami, Ball State
Toledo, Bowling Green, NIU
EMU, CMU, WMU

This scheduling model opens the door a bit for possible expansion, IMO.

I'm interested in how the tiebreakers play out. The top two contenders are chosen based off conference winning percentage, but in 2022 there was a 4-way tie for 2nd.

Last Edited: 12/1/2023 11:15:07 AM by GoCats105
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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Eliminates Divisions for Football
   Posted: 12/1/2023 11:08:02 AM 
Kind of random that we will play Ball State every year but I can see the logic of the pods they formed.

Andrew Ruck
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Eliminates Divisions for Football
   Posted: 12/1/2023 11:09:48 AM 
Yeah, feels like Ball State was the odd school out there.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Eliminates Divisions for Football
   Posted: 12/1/2023 11:16:22 AM 
Andrew Ruck wrote:
Kind of random that we will play Ball State every year but I can see the logic of the pods they formed.

It probably should have been Ohio, Miami, and Marshall, but they left. ;)

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Victory
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Eliminates Divisions for Football
   Posted: 12/1/2023 11:41:02 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Yeah, feels like Ball State was the odd school out there.


Ohio and Ball State is sort of the oddball in the pods. BG and NIU is kind of weird too. But they had to go somewhere. If you were going to make pods of three with permanent rivals this was almost certainly the best set. Ball State and Miami were always one of each other's biggest in-conference rivals before divisions. We are being dragged into a potential football rivalry with Ball State now.
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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Eliminates Divisions for Football
   Posted: 12/1/2023 12:53:10 PM 
I think they got too hung up on state borders with EMU...they are much closer to Toledo & BG, then NIU could've been in with WMU & CMU.

If the past 20 years is any indication, BG has a real tough draw playing both Toledo and NIU every year.

Andrew Ruck
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Eliminates Divisions for Football
   Posted: 12/1/2023 1:39:31 PM 
Under the new model, here's how things would have ended up, conference record wise and what the championship was as we know it.

2023
1st: Toledo
2nd: Miami
Actual MAC title: Toledo vs. Miami

2022
1st: Ohio
2nd: Buffalo, Bowling Green, Toledo and EMU all finished 5-3
Actual MAC title: Ohio vs. Toledo

2021
1st: Kent State, NIU and CMU all finished 6-2
Actual MAC title: Kent State vs. NIU

2020
1st: Buffalo
2nd: Ball State
Actual MAC title: Buffalo vs. Ball State

2019
1st: Miami and CMU
Actual MAC title: Miami vs. CMU

2018
1st: Buffalo
2nd: Miami, Ohio and NIU all finished 6-2
Actual MAC title: Buffalo vs. NIU

2017
1st: Toledo
2nd: Akron, CMU and NIU all finished 6-2
Actual MAC title: Toledo vs. Akron

2016
1st: WMU
2nd: Ohio, Miami and Toledo all finished 6-2
Actual MAC title: WMU vs. Ohio

2015
1st: Bowling Green
2nd: NIU, WMU, Toledo and CMU all finished 6-2 (NIU went to the title game)
Actual MAC title: Bowling Green vs. NIU

2014
1st: NIU and Toledo
Actual MAC title: NIU vs. Bowling Green

2013
1st: NIU
2nd: Bowling Green and Ball State both finished 7-1
Actual MAC title: NIU vs. Bowling Green

2012
1st: Kent State and NIU
Actual MAC title: Kent State vs. NIU

2011
1st: NIU and Toledo
Actual MAC title: NIU vs. Ohio

2010
1st: NIU
2nd: Toledo and Miami both finished 7-1
Actual MAC title: NIU vs. Miami

2009
1st: CMU
2nd: Ohio and Temple both finished 7-1 (Ohio went to the title game)
Actual MAC title: CMU vs. Ohio

2008
1st: Ball State
2nd: CMU and WMU both finished 6-2
Actual MAC title: Ball State vs. Buffalo

2007
1st: CMU
2nd: Bowling Green? They played more MAC games this season than East Champion Miami because of the Temple addition/transition. I didn't think those games counted towards conference record though.
Actual MAC title: CMU vs. Miami

2006
1st: Ohio and CMU
Actual MAC title: Ohio vs. CMU

2005
1st: NIU and Toledo
Actual MAC title: Akron vs. NIU

2004
1st: Miami, Toledo and NIU all finished 7-1
Actual MAC title: Miami vs. Toledo

2003
1st: Miami
2nd: Bowling Green
Actual MAC title: Miami vs. Bowling Green

2002
1st: Marshall, Toledo and NIU all finished 7-1
Actual MAC title: Marshall vs. Toledo

2001
1st: Marshall
2nd: Miami
Actual MAC title: Marshall vs. Toledo

2000:
1st: WMU
2nd: Toledo
Actual MAC title: WMU vs. Marshall

1999
1st: Marshall
2nd: Miami and WMU both finished 6-2
Actual MAC title: Marshall vs. WMU

1998
1st: Miami and Marshall
Actual MAC title: Miami vs. Toledo

1997
1st: Marshall and Toledo
Actual MAC title: Marshall vs. Toledo

There are some outliers for sure, but it would have been interesting to see some division rematches, particularly late 90s/00s Marshall/Miami or later on NIU/Toledo.


Last Edited: 12/1/2023 1:42:38 PM by GoCats105
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M.D.W.S.T
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Eliminates Divisions for Football
   Posted: 12/1/2023 3:02:18 PM 
Andrew Ruck wrote:
I think they got too hung up on state borders with EMU...they are much closer to Toledo & BG, then NIU could've been in with WMU & CMU.

If the past 20 years is any indication, BG has a real tough draw playing both Toledo and NIU every year.


Should've went with Leaders and Legends
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Pete Chouteau
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Eliminates Divisions for Football
   Posted: 12/1/2023 3:17:33 PM 
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
Andrew Ruck wrote:
I think they got too hung up on state borders with EMU...they are much closer to Toledo & BG, then NIU could've been in with WMU & CMU.

If the past 20 years is any indication, BG has a real tough draw playing both Toledo and NIU every year.


Should've went with Leaders and Legends


We've got pods to name, I'm fine with those as long as Smythe and Norris are the others.
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Urban Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Eliminates Divisions for Football
   Posted: 12/1/2023 3:24:56 PM 
Wonder how many MAC Championships our pod mates (Miami and Ball St.) will win before we do? Sadly, I'll long be in my grave before this question is answered.

Last Edited: 12/1/2023 3:25:36 PM by Urban Bobcat

URBAN BOBCAT

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mf279801
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Eliminates Divisions for Football
   Posted: 12/1/2023 3:47:40 PM 
Andrew Ruck wrote:
Kind of random that we will play Ball State every year but I can see the logic of the pods they formed.


MAC-South - Ohio, Ball St, Miami - makes pretty good sense from a compactness perspective. Could argue that Ohio/Kent/Akron would also make sense, but that leaves Buffalo very isolated from its nearest pod.

The MAC-East pod of Akron, Kent, and Buffalo makes sense, as does the MAC-Directional Michigan pod.

Looking at a map, the odd-pod out to me is NIU/Toledo/BGSU.

The only real alternative model i see that at least looks more compact looks worse for the Michigans:
Akron/Kent/Buffalo; BG/Toledo/EMU; Ohio/Ball St/Miami; CMU/WMU/NIU
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MonroeClassmate
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  Message Not Read  RE: MAC Eliminates Divisions for Football
   Posted: 12/1/2023 10:40:41 PM 
GoCats105 wrote:
Under the new model, here's how things would have ended up, conference record wise and what the championship was as we know it.

2023
1st: Toledo
2nd: Miami
Actual MAC title: Toledo vs. Miami

2022
1st: Ohio
2nd: Buffalo, Bowling Green, Toledo and EMU all finished 5-3
Actual MAC title: Ohio vs. Toledo

2021
1st: Kent State, NIU and CMU all finished 6-2
Actual MAC title: Kent State vs. NIU

2020
1st: Buffalo
2nd: Ball State
Actual MAC title: Buffalo vs. Ball State

2019
1st: Miami and CMU
Actual MAC title: Miami vs. CMU

2018
1st: Buffalo
2nd: Miami, Ohio and NIU all finished 6-2
Actual MAC title: Buffalo vs. NIU

2017
1st: Toledo
2nd: Akron, CMU and NIU all finished 6-2
Actual MAC title: Toledo vs. Akron

2016
1st: WMU
2nd: Ohio, Miami and Toledo all finished 6-2
Actual MAC title: WMU vs. Ohio

2015
1st: Bowling Green
2nd: NIU, WMU, Toledo and CMU all finished 6-2 (NIU went to the title game)
Actual MAC title: Bowling Green vs. NIU

2014
1st: NIU and Toledo
Actual MAC title: NIU vs. Bowling Green

2013
1st: NIU
2nd: Bowling Green and Ball State both finished 7-1
Actual MAC title: NIU vs. Bowling Green

2012
1st: Kent State and NIU
Actual MAC title: Kent State vs. NIU

2011
1st: NIU and Toledo
Actual MAC title: NIU vs. Ohio

2010
1st: NIU
2nd: Toledo and Miami both finished 7-1
Actual MAC title: NIU vs. Miami

2009
1st: CMU
2nd: Ohio and Temple both finished 7-1 (Ohio went to the title game)
Actual MAC title: CMU vs. Ohio

2008
1st: Ball State
2nd: CMU and WMU both finished 6-2
Actual MAC title: Ball State vs. Buffalo

2007
1st: CMU
2nd: Bowling Green? They played more MAC games this season than East Champion Miami because of the Temple addition/transition. I didn't think those games counted towards conference record though.
Actual MAC title: CMU vs. Miami

2006
1st: Ohio and CMU
Actual MAC title: Ohio vs. CMU

2005
1st: NIU and Toledo
Actual MAC title: Akron vs. NIU

2004
1st: Miami, Toledo and NIU all finished 7-1
Actual MAC title: Miami vs. Toledo

2003
1st: Miami
2nd: Bowling Green
Actual MAC title: Miami vs. Bowling Green

2002
1st: Marshall, Toledo and NIU all finished 7-1
Actual MAC title: Marshall vs. Toledo

2001
1st: Marshall
2nd: Miami
Actual MAC title: Marshall vs. Toledo

2000:
1st: WMU
2nd: Toledo
Actual MAC title: WMU vs. Marshall

1999
1st: Marshall
2nd: Miami and WMU both finished 6-2
Actual MAC title: Marshall vs. WMU

1998
1st: Miami and Marshall
Actual MAC title: Miami vs. Toledo

1997
1st: Marshall and Toledo
Actual MAC title: Marshall vs. Toledo

There are some outliers for sure, but it would have been interesting to see some division rematches, particularly late 90s/00s Marshall/Miami or later on NIU/Toledo.




21 names from your list dating back to 1997 (26 years) are Toledo, Bowling Green and NIU. IMO, BGSU gets screwed having to play Toledo every year and now NIU. Putting arguably the three most consistent teams in the same pod makes this a super pod. Miami, another of the most consistent teams has a cake walk in comparison to any of the NIU, BGSU, Toledo three.
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