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Topic:  Not specifically Ohio related.....but....

Topic:  Not specifically Ohio related.....but....
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greencat
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  Message Not Read  Not specifically Ohio related.....but....
   Posted: 11/18/2021 2:45:34 PM 
Do college kids still listen to rap?

I've had it with the toxic degenerate filth of "gangsta rap" being passed off as music and "art." It's a carcinogen on our society that promotes gangs, violence, etc. As far as I can tell, hardcore rap has no redeeming value.

What just happened that broke the camel's back?

Young Dolph, a high-profile Memphis rapper, was killed in a shooting Wednesday while inside a cookie bakery on Airways Boulevard, Memphis police said.

previously involving this one rapper:

In February of 2017, in Charlotte, North Carolina, a suspect fired more than 100 rounds at a heavily armored SUV that Thornton would later credit with saving his life.

and

Later in 2017, Thornton was critically injured after a suspect shot him multiple times outside of a Hollywood hotel in Los Angeles.

https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/news/2021/11/17/yo... /
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spongeBOB CATpants
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  Message Not Read  RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....
   Posted: 11/19/2021 2:08:50 PM 
Yes they do. I wouldn't touch this debate with a 12 foot pole.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....
   Posted: 11/19/2021 2:08:51 PM 
Rap is a huge genre encompassing all manner of musicians and styles.

Asking "Do college kids still listen to rap?" as a lead in to a tiny subset of rappers killing each other is basically the equivalent of saying "Is pop music to blame for Michael Jackson molesting kids."
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....
   Posted: 11/19/2021 2:57:05 PM 
Get off my lawn
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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....
   Posted: 11/19/2021 9:59:48 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Rap is a huge genre encompassing all manner of musicians and styles.

Asking "Do college kids still listen to rap?" as a lead in to a tiny subset of rappers killing each other is basically the equivalent of saying "Is pop music to blame for Michael Jackson molesting kids."



Next up: the "remember when we listened to the Beatles and our parents griped about it and asked how we could listen to that noise" argument/defection.

OK, I'll play along. Does this sound like John Lennon or Paul McCartney wrote it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk4eaPzEK0E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oO9SQ_uap8

Lots more from where those came from. Need to hear more?
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mf279801
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  Message Not Read  RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....
   Posted: 11/20/2021 4:39:05 PM 
Pardon my French, but what the duck (sic) are you on about?!
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....
   Posted: 11/21/2021 6:18:44 AM 
greencat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Rap is a huge genre encompassing all manner of musicians and styles.

Asking "Do college kids still listen to rap?" as a lead in to a tiny subset of rappers killing each other is basically the equivalent of saying "Is pop music to blame for Michael Jackson molesting kids."



Next up: the "remember when we listened to the Beatles and our parents griped about it and asked how we could listen to that noise" argument/defection.

OK, I'll play along. Does this sound like John Lennon or Paul McCartney wrote it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk4eaPzEK0E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oO9SQ_uap8

Lots more from where those came from. Need to hear more?



You just make an argument about the Beatles on my behalf so that you can argue with yourself. Nothing weird about that.
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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....
   Posted: 11/21/2021 4:09:35 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
greencat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Rap is a huge genre encompassing all manner of musicians and styles.

Asking "Do college kids still listen to rap?" as a lead in to a tiny subset of rappers killing each other is basically the equivalent of saying "Is pop music to blame for Michael Jackson molesting kids."



Next up: the "remember when we listened to the Beatles and our parents griped about it and asked how we could listen to that noise" argument/defection.

OK, I'll play along. Does this sound like John Lennon or Paul McCartney wrote it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk4eaPzEK0E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oO9SQ_uap8

Lots more from where those came from. Need to hear more?



You just make an argument about the Beatles on my behalf so that you can argue with yourself. Nothing weird about that.


Having seen this debate on Reddit and everywhere else, the "what about the parents back in the day calling the Beatles and Stones noise" argument that claims the gangsta rap garbage is just this generation having innocent fun in their own little way... is inevitable and is totally false and sugarcoats something that is truly dangerous.

I was against the Tipper Gore/Susan Baker thing in the 80's which was a controversial stand to take in Nashville TN back then. However, the lyrics to "rap" and even the loudest metal bands back then, was not in the same universe with what these gangstas are "rapping" about. Even as a person who is very socially liberal, I won't hesitate to point out that stuff is made by hoodlums, for hoodlums and nothing good comes from it.
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Ohio69
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  Message Not Read  RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....
   Posted: 11/21/2021 9:49:10 PM 
greencat wrote:
….claims the gangsta rap garbage is just this generation having innocent fun in their own little way... is inevitable and is totally false and sugarcoats something that is truly dangerous…..


Why is it “truly dangerous”?



Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....
   Posted: 11/21/2021 10:07:02 PM 
Gangsta rap has been widely criticized for an array of societal ills, including promoting crime (including murder), homophobia, rape, drug dealing, street gangs, etc.

quote:
"But even when I was making a lot of money selling drugs, I stayed in the gutter," Brown said. "I lived in a place that had roaches. My neighbors were on crack. I was a product in my environment. I didn't know how to get out. I didn't know how to move. I was someone who wasn't taught anything."

He said he began to wake up when his best friend was killed at 19 years old.

Brown said he looks around the community today and sees how the music controls the minds of many of the young men who are gangbanging.

The article is from the Chicago Tribune and called:
Ex-gang member talks about rap music's influence
And here's the link:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/ct-rap-music-gang-...

Not that people don't already know all this. They do. Just like the people knew that the emperor was naked with his huevos hanging out and wouldn't admit it. Peer pressure dictated they pretend otherwise.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....
   Posted: 11/22/2021 9:57:35 AM 
greencat wrote:


Having seen this debate on Reddit and everywhere else, the "what about the parents back in the day calling the Beatles and Stones noise" argument that claims the gangsta rap garbage is just this generation having innocent fun in their own little way... is inevitable and is totally false and sugarcoats something that is truly dangerous.


Cool. That is not the point I made. I made an entirely different point, which you replied to, completely ignored, and made the Beatles point so you could argue against it. You've now reiterated the Beatles point to argue against it again.

Nobody here has made that point except you. You're just having a conversation with yourself.


Last Edited: 11/22/2021 10:16:52 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....
   Posted: 11/22/2021 11:47:23 AM 
Nobody seems to be able to make a case for hardcore rap NOT being degenerate filth so it looks like the original point stands unchallenged.

I'm no prude. I watched "Breaking Bad" and Tarantino films. (and more recently "Uncut Gems") but you don't see the movie studios having gang wars and gunning each other down on the street corners. (And I thought "Reservoir Dogs" was terrible unlike some of the other Tarantino movies that ranged from "meh" to really entertaining)
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....
   Posted: 11/22/2021 12:35:30 PM 
greencat wrote:
Nobody seems to be able to make a case for hardcore rap NOT being degenerate filth so it looks like the original point stands unchallenged.


Congratulations. Your incredibly insightful point of "music that makes people kill each other is bad" has gone unchallenged.

All that remains now is for a single person to understand -- even just a little bit -- why you felt the need to make that point or what you're hoping to accomplish by doing so.





Last Edited: 11/22/2021 12:36:39 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....
   Posted: 11/22/2021 1:21:18 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
greencat wrote:
Nobody seems to be able to make a case for hardcore rap NOT being degenerate filth so it looks like the original point stands unchallenged.


Congratulations. Your incredibly insightful point of "music that makes people kill each other is bad" has gone unchallenged.

All that remains now is for a single person to understand -- even just a little bit -- why you felt the need to make that point or what you're hoping to accomplish by doing so.



For people to finally admit:
"music that makes people kill each other is bad"
is a good first step, instead of them deflecting and being in denial.

We live in a society where yelling "fire" at the theater is supposed to be against the law. The American Bar Association says: "The rule of law functions because most of us agree that it is important to follow laws every day." So-called "music" that incites horrific crimes to be committed is not a positive part of a civilized society. People need to start calling that crap out for what it is. But most won't.

Because people are too afraid to admit the emperor is naked.

P.S. - mold and fungus don't grow if exposed to light... and hardore rap is not the only mold/fungus in our society. The guys who killed the unarmed jogger in Brunswick, Ga. certainly have mold & fungus for brains.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....
   Posted: 11/22/2021 2:06:48 PM 
greencat wrote:


For people to finally admit:
"music that makes people kill each other is bad"
is a good first step, instead of them deflecting and being in denial.


This is such a silly point that reduces a nuanced debate into overly simplistic black and white terms. There's nobody out there arguing against that point. The counterpoint is much more nuanced than that and focuses on practical challenges of how one determines what music (and more broadly, what art) has negative impacts, how the state should determine that, and what one does about that.

greencat wrote:

We live in a society where yelling "fire" at the theater is supposed to be against the law.


In this comparison, what's the fire and what's the crowded theater?

greencat wrote:

The American Bar Association says: "The rule of law functions because most of us agree that it is important to follow laws every day." So-called "music" that incites horrific crimes to be committed is not a positive part of a civilized society. People need to start calling that crap out for what it is. But most won't.


Where and how do you suggest the law draw the line in this case? Couldn't I just as easily make the case that Elliott Smith incites horrific cases of self-harm amongst the depressed? What about music that encourages drug use? Or drinking? Who decides what's art and what crosses the line into "inciting horrific crimes"? Who is responsible for conducting thorough psychological analysis of the perpetrators of a given crime and determining the cause?

In other words, what's your actual point here?
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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....
   Posted: 11/22/2021 2:44:18 PM 
I never insisted on legislation.

For people to finally admit:
"music that makes people kill each other is bad"
is a good first step, instead of them deflecting and being in denial.

^ ^ It's a step... a first step ^ ^

Better than progressing to the point of admitting
"music that makes people kill each other is bad"
and immediately regressing into deflecting into the opposite, why people should pretend there is nothing wrong with it. Moral relativism at it's worst.

When in doubt, go moral relativist, right? Like "who is really to decide if the emperor is naked? And who defines what naked even is? And how naked does an emperor have to be, to be deemed naked? And who has the right to make that decision? Isn't naked to one person, clothed to another?" {ad nauseam}

-------------------------------------------------------

And juries comprised of mental midgets fall for this moral relativism crap... then you see people like George Zimmerman and Kyle Rittenhouse walk. Which is why they should have IQ tests for sitting on the jury for an important trial.

Last Edited: 11/22/2021 2:53:58 PM by greencat
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....
   Posted: 11/22/2021 6:20:53 PM 
greencat wrote:
I never insisted on legislation.


No, but you did cite a famous supreme court interpretation word-for-word.

I assume your intention in doing so was to imply a connection.

greencat wrote:

For people to finally admit:
"music that makes people kill each other is bad"
is a good first step, instead of them deflecting and being in denial.

^ ^ It's a step... a first step ^ ^


It's a first step everybody agrees with. You keep insisting there are many people who don't; none of them are here. It's very clear you were hoping to bait someone into a very particular argument. Not sure what to tell you. Sorry nobody took you up on it, I guess?
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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....
   Posted: 11/23/2021 9:01:12 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:


No, but you did cite a famous supreme court interpretation word-for-word.



However, I did credit the Bar Association who famously repeats it.
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....
   Posted: 11/23/2021 12:14:30 PM 
Somewhat related - we've been to several weddings in the last 5 years and thank goodness the venues have had multiple rooms. Between the volume and selection of music, those outer rooms have come in handy.

And this is coming from a guy who plays music louder than most.
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The Optimist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....
   Posted: 11/23/2021 12:50:36 PM 
This thread makes me want to violate the noise ordinance.

I've seen crazier things happen.

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Deciduous Forest Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....
   Posted: 11/23/2021 12:54:52 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Somewhat related - we've been to several weddings in the last 5 years and thank goodness the venues have had multiple rooms. Between the volume and selection of music, those outer rooms have come in handy.

And this is coming from a guy who plays music louder than most.


Recently did not have same benefit at wedding. The steady diet of chicken fried and Applebee's grade music made me want to drown the dj in his own vomit. I wasnt close enough to the wedding party to justify violence in such a way however.
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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....
   Posted: 11/23/2021 1:34:34 PM 
Applebee's? You mean that song from that puke inducing commercial that used to be on 24 hours a day? The song that could easily be called "country-disco" - ??

The song that is so annoying that it was banned from being played at University of Alabama's football stadium? Even though the singer is from Alabama?

Not sarcastic....

https://www.dailyadvent.com/news/f4f156bc51a3403c35a1719d...
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mf279801
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  Message Not Read  RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....
   Posted: 11/23/2021 2:54:10 PM 
Lot of strong opinions flying around about music here. My two cents: the vast majority of music is fine and Springsteen is overrated (fine, but overrated)
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....
   Posted: 11/23/2021 3:06:35 PM 
mf279801 wrote:
Lot of strong opinions flying around about music here. My two cents: the vast majority of music is fine and Springsteen is overrated (fine, but overrated)


I was a huge Springsteen fan.
But his music has been on a downward trend since "Working on Dream" .

Now he's just trying anything he can to appear relevant.

Although ,I am planning on getting the just released No Nukes cd and dvd.
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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....
   Posted: 11/23/2021 4:52:34 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
I was a huge Springsteen fan.
But his music has been on a downward trend since "Working on Dream" .

Now he's just trying anything he can to appear relevant.

Although ,I am planning on getting the just released No Nukes cd and dvd.


Does your change of heart have anything to do with Springsteen's outspoken political viewpoints? You wouldn't be the only one. Some of those who have been offended by Bruce's liberal slant have gravitated to Ted Nugent and Kid Rock and I say good riddance.

Kid Rock fans can enjoy his latest masterpiece, which might set a record for most f-bombs and other highly intelligent lyrics (kind of ties in with greencat's rant on rap music): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agvibm7Wqy4

Last Edited: 11/23/2021 9:45:37 PM by bobcatsquared
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