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Topic:  higher ed in trouble

Topic:  higher ed in trouble
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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  higher ed in trouble
   Posted: 4/8/2020 2:56:49 PM 
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-08/colleg...

One thing that is certain to be evaluated is athletics.
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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: higher ed in trouble
   Posted: 4/8/2020 4:34:59 PM 
Yup.
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: higher ed in trouble
   Posted: 4/8/2020 5:20:27 PM 
Two paragraphs that got my attention toward the end of the article.

During the last recession, fundraising for colleges overall declined 12% over one year, according to data collected by the Council for Advancement and Support of Education. “We expect to see declines of charitable support of higher education giving in the next two fiscal years,” says Ann Kaplan, who directs the group’s annual survey of fundraising. “When the economy contracts, charitable giving in general also contracts.”

Even if schools remain open, they may have to downsize in ways that change campus life. “The role of athletics is one of those things that colleges should reexamine,” says David Feldman, a professor of economics at the College of William & Mary who studies higher education. This, too, was already starting to happen before the coronavirus hit.
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OUPride
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  Message Not Read  RE: higher ed in trouble
   Posted: 4/9/2020 9:39:56 AM 
Nobody ever likes my suggestion of working out a deal with OSU to limit their freshman class size in order to free up a thousand (or two) kids for the rest of the system, but I think the aftermath of this makes it look better and better.
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Bobcat1996
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  Message Not Read  RE: higher ed in trouble
   Posted: 4/9/2020 10:57:40 AM 
Could be that Ohio University will ask athletic dept. staff and coaches to take a cut in salaries, much like what is going on at Iowa State. It wouldn't shock me if many schools go this route. I am guessing Jimbo Fisher won't starve if his salary is slashed on his $75 million ten year deal.
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MonroeClassmate
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  Message Not Read  RE: higher ed in trouble
   Posted: 4/9/2020 12:44:51 PM 
OUPride wrote:
Nobody ever likes my suggestion of working out a deal with OSU to limit their freshman class size in order to free up a thousand (or two) kids for the rest of the system, but I think the aftermath of this makes it look better and better.


The negotiations for this should include the need for a commitment to "Social Distancing" and by spreading the numbers in one you improve the source and making it safer for all. Included in this proposal should be that 6-10 of their top 25 football recruits should then be assigned to the other schools around the state!
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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: higher ed in trouble
   Posted: 4/9/2020 1:14:38 PM 
MonroeClassmate wrote:
OUPride wrote:
Nobody ever likes my suggestion of working out a deal with OSU to limit their freshman class size in order to free up a thousand (or two) kids for the rest of the system, but I think the aftermath of this makes it look better and better.


The negotiations for this should include the need for a commitment to "Social Distancing" and by spreading the numbers in one you improve the source and making it safer for all. Included in this proposal should be that 6-10 of their top 25 football recruits should then be assigned to the other schools around the state!


No thanks on your final proposal, MonroeClassmate. I prefer to have true student-athletes on the The Ohio University football roster.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: higher ed in trouble
   Posted: 4/9/2020 2:26:50 PM 
bobcatsquared wrote:
MonroeClassmate wrote:
OUPride wrote:
Nobody ever likes my suggestion of working out a deal with OSU to limit their freshman class size in order to free up a thousand (or two) kids for the rest of the system, but I think the aftermath of this makes it look better and better.


The negotiations for this should include the need for a commitment to "Social Distancing" and by spreading the numbers in one you improve the source and making it safer for all. Included in this proposal should be that 6-10 of their top 25 football recruits should then be assigned to the other schools around the state!


No thanks on your final proposal, MonroeClassmate. I prefer to have true student-athletes on the The Ohio University football roster.


So we're going to swap rosters with D3 schools?
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jayboy
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  Message Not Read  RE: higher ed in trouble
   Posted: 4/9/2020 4:04:19 PM 
Bobcat1996 wrote:
Could be that Ohio University will ask athletic dept. staff and coaches to take a cut in salaries, much like what is going on at Iowa State. It wouldn't shock me if many schools go this route. I am guessing Jimbo Fisher won't starve if his salary is slashed on his $75 million ten year deal.


http://projects.thepostathens.com/SpecialProjects/the-pos...

The problem, IMO, is not the couple of athletic coaches. It's the ridiculous salaries of many (most) of the administrators on this campus.

--------
jayboy

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: higher ed in trouble
   Posted: 4/9/2020 5:42:33 PM 
jayboy wrote:
Bobcat1996 wrote:
Could be that Ohio University will ask athletic dept. staff and coaches to take a cut in salaries, much like what is going on at Iowa State. It wouldn't shock me if many schools go this route. I am guessing Jimbo Fisher won't starve if his salary is slashed on his $75 million ten year deal.


http://projects.thepostathens.com/SpecialProjects/the-pos...

The problem, IMO, is not the couple of athletic coaches. It's the ridiculous salaries of many (most) of the administrators on this campus.


It's both. There is no good reason that a mid-major school without a decent TV deal should make coaches their two highest paid employees.
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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: higher ed in trouble
   Posted: 4/10/2020 11:53:13 AM 
That is true. We don't make money on athletics. I believe we shouldn't pay the head coaches any more than what a dean makes, unless some deep pocketed booster is paying the difference. Higher ed has become bloated on the numbers of admin on the payroll. From what I've read, most departments have as much or more admin staff as teaching staff. Does someone closer to the situation know if that's true?
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: higher ed in trouble
   Posted: 4/10/2020 2:44:19 PM 
jayboy wrote:
Bobcat1996 wrote:
Could be that Ohio University will ask athletic dept. staff and coaches to take a cut in salaries, much like what is going on at Iowa State. It wouldn't shock me if many schools go this route. I am guessing Jimbo Fisher won't starve if his salary is slashed on his $75 million ten year deal.


http://projects.thepostathens.com/SpecialProjects/the-pos...

The problem, IMO, is not the couple of athletic coaches. It's the ridiculous salaries of many (most) of the administrators on this campus.


There are 538 folks making 100K or more most of whom are in administrative roles.
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cbus cat fan
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  Message Not Read  RE: higher ed in trouble
   Posted: 4/10/2020 5:34:23 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
jayboy wrote:
Bobcat1996 wrote:
Could be that Ohio University will ask athletic dept. staff and coaches to take a cut in salaries, much like what is going on at Iowa State. It wouldn't shock me if many schools go this route. I am guessing Jimbo Fisher won't starve if his salary is slashed on his $75 million ten year deal.


http://projects.thepostathens.com/SpecialProjects/the-pos...

The problem, IMO, is not the couple of athletic coaches. It's the ridiculous salaries of many (most) of the administrators on this campus.


There are 538 folks making 100K or more most of whom are in administrative roles.



To Alan's point, I was talking with an administrator at an Ohio Five school a couple of days ago. She told me that while they are hardly in any financial turmoil, some of the schools they compete against in their conference are in serious jeopardy. She is hardly a sports nut, so her claim that sports aren't nearly the problem rang true to me. She told me 20 years ago, the administration was pretty simple; Provost, Dean etc. Now you have a plethora of positions loosely titled; Academic Success Coordinator, Asst. to the Coordinator, Student Affairs Coordinator, Asst Coordinator etc. The list goes on and on. It was once standard dogma that a university president had been a professor, dean, provost etc. The previous President of Cincinnati State was once the Queen City's Coroner. I bet that made for some gallows humor at the community college gathering or presidents.

Lots of festering problems in Higher Ed. However, the demographic winter they are in the midst of has been staring them in the face for 15-20 years. Yet, the positions they have added since then seem to indicate they have been literally whistling by the graveyard.

Last Edited: 4/10/2020 5:40:00 PM by cbus cat fan
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: higher ed in trouble
   Posted: 4/10/2020 6:44:16 PM 
cbus cat fan wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
jayboy wrote:
Bobcat1996 wrote:
Could be that Ohio University will ask athletic dept. staff and coaches to take a cut in salaries, much like what is going on at Iowa State. It wouldn't shock me if many schools go this route. I am guessing Jimbo Fisher won't starve if his salary is slashed on his $75 million ten year deal.


http://projects.thepostathens.com/SpecialProjects/the-pos...

The problem, IMO, is not the couple of athletic coaches. It's the ridiculous salaries of many (most) of the administrators on this campus.


There are 538 folks making 100K or more most of whom are in administrative roles.



The previous President of Cincinnati State was once the Queen City's Coroner. I bet that made for some gallows humor at the community college gathering or presidents.



Oh my, that's a really good one.
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OUPride
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  Message Not Read  RE: higher ed in trouble
   Posted: 4/11/2020 11:59:07 AM 
My thumbnail sketch of who's in danger goes something like this:

Public Division
Not in danger: OSU, Central State (because OSU has shown in the past that they'll prop them up)
Moderate danger: UC, Miami (particularly if this causes their Chicago pipeline to dry up), Ohio
Serious danger: Cleveland State, KSU, Toledo, BGSU, YSU
Dead Man Walking: Akron, Wright State, Shawnee State

Private Division
Not in danger: Case, Oberlin, Kenyon, Denison
Moderate danger: Wooster, Ohio Wesleyan, Dayton, Xavier, Capital
Serious danger: everyone else

In the case of the publics, this doesn't necessarily mean that they'll fail but rather they might exist in the future in a manner fundamentally different than they have in the past such as Akron being merged into KSU.
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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: higher ed in trouble
   Posted: 4/11/2020 8:30:56 PM 
I'd say KSU is in a much better place than we are.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: higher ed in trouble
   Posted: 4/12/2020 8:56:44 AM 
OUPride wrote:
My thumbnail sketch of who's in danger goes something like this:

Public Division
Not in danger: OSU, Central State (because OSU has shown in the past that they'll prop them up)
Moderate danger: UC, Miami (particularly if this causes their Chicago pipeline to dry up), Ohio
Serious danger: Cleveland State, KSU, Toledo, BGSU, YSU
Dead Man Walking: Akron, Wright State, Shawnee State

Private Division
Not in danger: Case, Oberlin, Kenyon, Denison
Moderate danger: Wooster, Ohio Wesleyan, Dayton, Xavier, Capital
Serious danger: everyone else

In the case of the publics, this doesn't necessarily mean that they'll fail but rather they might exist in the future in a manner fundamentally different than they have in the past such as Akron being merged into KSU.


Curious as to why you feel this way, or what information or data you are using to compile your list?
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OUPride
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  Message Not Read  RE: higher ed in trouble
   Posted: 4/12/2020 10:15:47 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
OUPride wrote:
My thumbnail sketch of who's in danger goes something like this:

Public Division
Not in danger: OSU, Central State (because OSU has shown in the past that they'll prop them up)
Moderate danger: UC, Miami (particularly if this causes their Chicago pipeline to dry up), Ohio
Serious danger: Cleveland State, KSU, Toledo, BGSU, YSU
Dead Man Walking: Akron, Wright State, Shawnee State

Private Division
Not in danger: Case, Oberlin, Kenyon, Denison
Moderate danger: Wooster, Ohio Wesleyan, Dayton, Xavier, Capital
Serious danger: everyone else

In the case of the publics, this doesn't necessarily mean that they'll fail but rather they might exist in the future in a manner fundamentally different than they have in the past such as Akron being merged into KSU.


Curious as to why you feel this way, or what information or data you are using to compile your list?


Just a rough approximation based on fundraising ability, endowment and enrollment trends. I thought about bumping up KSU to our level, but for me, the difference was the much better track record of fundraising by Ohio, UC and Miami. One thing that's big to me is the acceptance rate. OSU rejects over 50% of their applicant pool, which tells me that should demand drop, they can simply go deeper into the applicant pool. Their precious average ACT score might drop, but they're not going to be staring at empty dorms. Miami, on the other hand, accepts 70% of their applicants, which tells me they have a much smaller comfort zone should they see a decline in applicants. And since 90% of the Ohio kids accepted to both OSU and Miami choose OSU, they are kind of desperate to keep that Chicago pipeline of kids paying 30K/year in tuition flowing.
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Sean Gallagher
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  Message Not Read  RE: higher ed in trouble
   Posted: 4/12/2020 12:07:28 PM 
Sure hope you're right about Ohio, but I'm affraid those past application numbers may not be viable in a post COVID-19 world.

This crisis may actually boost traditional commuter shcools like Cleveland State, since some kids/parents may opt to stay home or closer to home due to a lot of condsiderations, the top one being a depresssed economy.
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OUPride
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  Message Not Read  RE: higher ed in trouble
   Posted: 4/12/2020 1:49:03 PM 
As much as I rip on Miami for being Chicago's safety school for kids who don't get into UofI (and that's certainly the case for many), there probably is a fair overlap of kids who could go to UofI but choose Miami because they're a good fit for the culture there and their parents are willing to pay the out of state tution. What happens though if large numbers of these potential students start heading to UIUC due to the 20K annual gap in tuition between it and Miami. Let's be honest, it's a large diverse Big Ten school, and the Miami types can certainly major in business, join a frat and become Young Republicans there. If I'm a Miami administrator, this would be keeping me up at night.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: higher ed in trouble
   Posted: 4/12/2020 5:00:22 PM 
Sean Gallagher wrote:
Sure hope you're right about Ohio, but I'm affraid those past application numbers may not be viable in a post COVID-19 world.

This crisis may actually boost traditional commuter shcools like Cleveland State, since some kids/parents may opt to stay home or closer to home due to a lot of condsiderations, the top one being a depresssed economy.


Exactly, our enrollment numbers and drop in applications had better be a real concern.
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: higher ed in trouble
   Posted: 4/12/2020 5:58:41 PM 
Here's a very interesting site a semi-regular poster shared with me. Take a long and hard objective look at this. Things that I found particularly interesting are graduation rates, endowment, and signature programs and how those programs are relavent today and for the future. Also enrollment trends since 2014 are very telling. Hiram is a classic case of a downward spiral.

https://collegeboundadvantage.com/interactive-college-map /#

Last Edited: 4/12/2020 6:00:21 PM by Alan Swank
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: higher ed in trouble
   Posted: 4/13/2020 12:02:25 AM 
Alan, I find it strange that this site lists UC has having medical and law schools, and completely overlooks our medical school, which in terms of enrollment is now the largest in the state. I don’t think this is anti-DO bias, I suspect it’s just plain ignorance, but it does tend to make me doubt much of the other facts listed on the site. When I see a site or a publication that makes errors in the areas I know about, it always in my mind makes me doubt what they say in areas that I know nothing about. That is, they have a credibility issue with me.

Last Edited: 4/13/2020 12:02:44 AM by OhioCatFan

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: higher ed in trouble
   Posted: 4/13/2020 5:34:29 AM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Alan, I find it strange that this site lists UC has having medical and law schools, and completely overlooks our medical school, which in terms of enrollment is now the largest in the state. I don’t think this is anti-DO bias, I suspect it’s just plain ignorance, but it does tend to make me doubt much of the other facts listed on the site. When I see a site or a publication that makes errors in the areas I know about, it always in my mind makes me doubt what they say in areas that I know nothing about. That is, they have a credibility issue with me.


Maybe because UC’s Medical school has a reputation and is highly regarded?

https://www.universities.com/find/ohio/best/medicine-degrees

https://mededits.com/medical-school-admissions/schools-by... /

https://www.medicalschoolrankingshq.com/medical-school-ra...

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: higher ed in trouble
   Posted: 4/13/2020 9:53:51 AM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Alan, I find it strange that this site lists UC has having medical and law schools, and completely overlooks our medical school, which in terms of enrollment is now the largest in the state. I don’t think this is anti-DO bias, I suspect it’s just plain ignorance, but it does tend to make me doubt much of the other facts listed on the site. When I see a site or a publication that makes errors in the areas I know about, it always in my mind makes me doubt what they say in areas that I know nothing about. That is, they have a credibility issue with me.


This primarily a site for high school students getting ready to enter college. I checked and there was no mention of tosu's medical programs either so I wouldn't get too offended that ours isn't mentioned. Regardless, there is quite a bit of information in one place on this site. With campuses shut down to admissions visits for the foreseable future, resources like this and others are what students will be using to make some very important decisions.
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