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Topic:  Rock Bottom

Topic:  Rock Bottom
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FearLeon
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Member Since: 3/12/2005
Post Count: 4,354

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  Message Not Read  Rock Bottom
   Posted: 1/13/2024 2:40:07 PM 
I honestly see only one possible guaranteed "W" left on the schedule and that's Buffalo at home. I'm guessing we can possibly beat Ball State at home. The directional Michigan's appear to have passed us and it looks like Miami's program is in better shape than ours. I see a loss in DaKalb if they have a full allotment of players which NIU didn't have in Athens.

This is rock bottom fellas and it's all on Boals.

Letting the Bahamas Ezuma mystery linger on for two effing years is a damn joke.

Recruiting HS players and putting them on scholarship and then redshirting them.

I see a lot of guys on this roster not on the 2024-2025 team. Whether it's portal transfers or Boals tells them to leave. Seems to me Boals might have to blow this whole thing up and start from scratch come April 1st.



Last Edited: 1/13/2024 2:53:23 PM by FearLeon

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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GraffZ06
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Member Since: 1/5/2005
Location: Dayton, OH
Post Count: 2,055

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  Message Not Read  RE: Rock Bottom
   Posted: 1/13/2024 2:51:01 PM 
Career record at Ohio after todays WMU loss.

Jeff Boals: 85-56
John Groce: 85-56

Give it a rest.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 3,593

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  Message Not Read  RE: Rock Bottom
   Posted: 1/13/2024 3:02:51 PM 
It's the trend line that's concerning, not the career record.

Groce going into his 5th year would have been returning an entire Sweet 16 team and adding an NBA player in Caris Lavert.

Boals' 5th season will be his worst of 5.
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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rock Bottom
   Posted: 1/13/2024 3:05:46 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
It's the trend line that's concerning, not the career record.

Groce going into his 5th year would have been returning an entire Sweet 16 team and adding an NBA player in Caris Lavert.

Boals' 5th season will be his worst of 5.


You beat me to it with this analysis of both coaches in what a year five under Groce would have looked like compared to the talent currently assembled in year five on Boals roster.

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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bobcat 2000
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Member Since: 1/21/2006
Post Count: 200

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  Message Not Read  RE: Rock Bottom
   Posted: 1/13/2024 3:45:03 PM 
the question on many minds is who wins a game between this team and the 98 team?
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Alan Swank
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Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,080

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  Message Not Read  RE: Rock Bottom
   Posted: 1/13/2024 4:00:24 PM 
FearLeon wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
It's the trend line that's concerning, not the career record.

Groce going into his 5th year would have been returning an entire Sweet 16 team and adding an NBA player in Caris Lavert.

Boals' 5th season will be his worst of 5.


You beat me to it with this analysis of both coaches in what a year five under Groce would have looked like compared to the talent currently assembled in year five on Boals roster.



Take it a step further - Groce was 16 and 4 in his last 20 games. We are 9 and 11 in our last 20.
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FJC31
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Member Since: 3/31/2022
Post Count: 1,473

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  Message Not Read  RE: Rock Bottom
   Posted: 1/13/2024 4:36:58 PM 
How confident are you in Boals being able to blow it up and start from scratch, though?
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Deciduous Forest Cat
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Ohio
Post Count: 4,399

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Rock Bottom
   Posted: 1/13/2024 5:30:31 PM 
bobcat 2000 wrote:
the question on many minds is who wins a game between this team and the 98 team?


Are you getting paid by reference to the 97-98 year?
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bobcatsquared
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 5,256

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Rock Bottom
   Posted: 1/13/2024 6:57:51 PM 
Raise your hand if you had Ohio (and Kent) at 1-3 after the first two weeks of the season. With WMU at 4-0 and CMU and BG at 3-1.
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BobcatSports
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Member Since: 2/2/2006
Post Count: 1,084

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  Message Not Read  RE: Rock Bottom
   Posted: 1/13/2024 7:42:04 PM 
Don’t forget Boals worked wonders with Saul’s recruits. Groce pretty much started from scratch when he arrived and had spectacular recruiting classes to build his OHIO resume. Boals current roster is thin on size and talent, the results should not be surprising.
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GraffZ06
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Location: Dayton, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rock Bottom
   Posted: 1/13/2024 8:13:01 PM 
bobcat 2000 wrote:
the question on many minds is who wins a game between this team and the 98 team?


Literally nobody but you thinks about this even though you copy and paste it into every thread.

What are you related to Chet Feldman or something?
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GraffZ06
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Member Since: 1/5/2005
Location: Dayton, OH
Post Count: 2,055

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Rock Bottom
   Posted: 1/13/2024 8:15:54 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
FearLeon wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
It's the trend line that's concerning, not the career record.

Groce going into his 5th year would have been returning an entire Sweet 16 team and adding an NBA player in Caris Lavert.

Boals' 5th season will be his worst of 5.


You beat me to it with this analysis of both coaches in what a year five under Groce would have looked like compared to the talent currently assembled in year five on Boals roster.



Take it a step further - Groce was 16 and 4 in his last 20 games. We are 9 and 11 in our last 20.



Cherry picking the end of Groce's 5th year which just happened to be a Sweet 16 team vs the last set of games for Boals in an obviously down year is COMPLETELY fair.

You're right, looking at their overall bodies of work is worthless. Let's talk about the last 20 games and draw our conclusions from there.


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Alan Swank
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Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,080

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  Message Not Read  RE: Rock Bottom
   Posted: 1/13/2024 10:16:56 PM 
GraffZ06 wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
FearLeon wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
It's the trend line that's concerning, not the career record.

Groce going into his 5th year would have been returning an entire Sweet 16 team and adding an NBA player in Caris Lavert.

Boals' 5th season will be his worst of 5.


You beat me to it with this analysis of both coaches in what a year five under Groce would have looked like compared to the talent currently assembled in year five on Boals roster.



Take it a step further - Groce was 16 and 4 in his last 20 games. We are 9 and 11 in our last 20.



Cherry picking the end of Groce's 5th year which just happened to be a Sweet 16 team vs the last set of games for Boals in an obviously down year is COMPLETELY fair.

You're right, looking at their overall bodies of work is worthless. Let's talk about the last 20 games and draw our conclusions from there.




Body of work. How about where we are today and where we "might" be going. Looking at the last 20 games gives us a pretty good indication of that. I for one hope I eat my words but these last 20 games versus Groce's last 20 plus what was coming in are as different as night and day. There was legitimate optimistic hope of continuing to win at a very high level. I sat in courtside in St. Louis and saw a missed free throw possibly cost us an elite eight birth and they were all coming back for the most part plus the stud from Pickerington who at last check, was is still playing in the NBA.
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GraffZ06
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Member Since: 1/5/2005
Location: Dayton, OH
Post Count: 2,055

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Rock Bottom
   Posted: 1/13/2024 11:56:23 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
GraffZ06 wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
FearLeon wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
It's the trend line that's concerning, not the career record.

Groce going into his 5th year would have been returning an entire Sweet 16 team and adding an NBA player in Caris Lavert.

Boals' 5th season will be his worst of 5.


You beat me to it with this analysis of both coaches in what a year five under Groce would have looked like compared to the talent currently assembled in year five on Boals roster.



Take it a step further - Groce was 16 and 4 in his last 20 games. We are 9 and 11 in our last 20.



Cherry picking the end of Groce's 5th year which just happened to be a Sweet 16 team vs the last set of games for Boals in an obviously down year is COMPLETELY fair.

You're right, looking at their overall bodies of work is worthless. Let's talk about the last 20 games and draw our conclusions from there.




Body of work. How about where we are today and where we "might" be going. Looking at the last 20 games gives us a pretty good indication of that. I for one hope I eat my words but these last 20 games versus Groce's last 20 plus what was coming in are as different as night and day. There was legitimate optimistic hope of continuing to win at a very high level. I sat in courtside in St. Louis and saw a missed free throw possibly cost us an elite eight birth and they were all coming back for the most part plus the stud from Pickerington who at last check, was is still playing in the NBA.



Yes, Groce had an amazing team and an amazing run. Alas, our budget didn't allow us to actually keep it or build on it and everything you said became a "could have been". But it never was. And there was no guarantee even if Groce stayed that everything would have worked out like we all hoped/thought.

Let's hope we get back there someday but the game of roster building has changed significantly since then, and not in a friendly way for Ohio.

That team was a once every 30 years type team at Ohio under previous rules. Given the landscape today it might be more like a once every 50 years type of run.

My point is, if 2012 is the measuring stick, then prepare to be let down for about 49 of the next 50 years. If it's not, then let's not use that once in a generation data point to try and make this program under Boals look worse than it is.

We suck this year. Nobody is happy about that. But statistically over the last 5 years Boals has done a tremendous job. Let's see what he can do with limited resources tying one hand behind his back in the future.
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BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 9,941

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Rock Bottom
   Posted: 1/14/2024 8:13:44 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:
GraffZ06 wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
FearLeon wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
It's the trend line that's concerning, not the career record.

Groce going into his 5th year would have been returning an entire Sweet 16 team and adding an NBA player in Caris Lavert.

Boals' 5th season will be his worst of 5.


You beat me to it with this analysis of both coaches in what a year five under Groce would have looked like compared to the talent currently assembled in year five on Boals roster.



Take it a step further - Groce was 16 and 4 in his last 20 games. We are 9 and 11 in our last 20.



Cherry picking the end of Groce's 5th year which just happened to be a Sweet 16 team vs the last set of games for Boals in an obviously down year is COMPLETELY fair.

You're right, looking at their overall bodies of work is worthless. Let's talk about the last 20 games and draw our conclusions from there.




Body of work. How about where we are today and where we "might" be going. Looking at the last 20 games gives us a pretty good indication of that. I for one hope I eat my words but these last 20 games versus Groce's last 20 plus what was coming in are as different as night and day. There was legitimate optimistic hope of continuing to win at a very high level. I sat in courtside in St. Louis and saw a missed free throw possibly cost us an elite eight birth and they were all coming back for the most part plus the stud from Pickerington who at last check, was is still playing in the NBA.




And that is why we play the games, because what happened to all that "promise"?
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Pete Chouteau
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Member Since: 11/17/2004
Location: You Can't See Me
Post Count: 1,635

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Rock Bottom
   Posted: 1/14/2024 9:13:34 AM 
Oh no no no... this is not rock bottom.

Rock bottom indicates things are about to improve, you silly optimist.

Rock bottom will come March 8 when Miami finishes a season sweep.
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JSF
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Member Since: 1/29/2005
Location: Houston, TX
Post Count: 6,444

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  Message Not Read  RE: Rock Bottom
   Posted: 1/14/2024 9:56:01 AM 
It's still only January. Teams who look poised to contend fall apart and teams who look hapless figure it out and become stronger. We could still yet find cohesion and play better. We could also flag mentally and start getting blown out instead of lose in close games.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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BillyTheCat
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Post Count: 9,941

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  Message Not Read  RE: Rock Bottom
   Posted: 1/14/2024 8:21:09 PM 
JSF wrote:
It's still only January. Teams who look poised to contend fall apart and teams who look hapless figure it out and become stronger. We could still yet find cohesion and play better. We could also flag mentally and start getting blown out instead of lose in close games.


agreed, some act like this team is getting beat by 20 every night out. That is just not reality. Yes, wins have been tough to find, but this team has been close, despite all their issues.
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Andrew Ruck
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Member Since: 12/22/2004
Location: Columbus, OH
Post Count: 4,957

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  Message Not Read  RE: Rock Bottom
   Posted: 1/15/2024 8:28:44 AM 
In the end, the only thing that matters is how does this team stack up to the 1998 team.

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rock Bottom
   Posted: 1/15/2024 8:33:07 AM 
I actually do think this is rock bottom, just in the way Pete describes not as you are saying suggesting we will get lower.

This has sucked big time this season. We've now lost EIGHT games in which we were favored. That has to be some kind of record. I think we are better than that (but still not real good) and will start to see some of these results flip in our favor. Unlikely anything special comes out of this season, but I do think in the season recal this will literally be pointed to as the rock bottom.

Take it one step at a time, next up is protecting homecourt this week and getting back to .500.

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

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M.D.W.S.T
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rock Bottom
   Posted: 1/15/2024 9:36:08 AM 
Is it ROCK BOTTOM if we all predicted a .500 ish record?

Certainly, I'm not ready to call this rock bottom in January. We're only 1-3. Check back in March.

We're not a good team, but the talent is there. It hasn't gelled for a cornucopia of reasons, but mostly because everyone on the team is a SG.

I hate the offense. I'm sure everyone on the team hates it. I bet Boals hates it. It's just too far into the season scrap it. Even though they should.

They're bad, but despite injuries to their best players - they're still in it almost every night. If we were getting embarrassed or blown off the floor it might feel different, but they're losing by an avg 5 ppg in MAC play. We all know their weaknesses, and there are many, but just imagine we start making some FT's... could/should be 4-0. 3-1.

Rock Bottom is Buffalo. We're not quite there. The MAC is bad... we're still in the middle and will compete every night.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rock Bottom
   Posted: 1/15/2024 9:46:52 AM 
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
Is it ROCK BOTTOM if we all predicted a .500 ish record?

Certainly, I'm not ready to call this rock bottom in January. We're only 1-3. Check back in March.

We're not a good team, but the talent is there. It hasn't gelled for a cornucopia of reasons, but mostly because everyone on the team is a SG.

I hate the offense. I'm sure everyone on the team hates it. I bet Boals hates it. It's just too far into the season scrap it. Even though they should.

They're bad, but despite injuries to their best players - they're still in it almost every night. If we were getting embarrassed or blown off the floor it might feel different, but they're losing by an avg 5 ppg in MAC play. We all know their weaknesses, and there are many, but just imagine we start making some FT's... could/should be 4-0. 3-1.

Rock Bottom is Buffalo. We're not quite there. The MAC is bad... we're still in the middle and will compete every night.



+1
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Post Count: 3,593

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  Message Not Read  RE: Rock Bottom
   Posted: 1/15/2024 10:31:39 AM 
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
Is it ROCK BOTTOM if we all predicted a .500 ish record?


I'm not seeing a lot of folks predicting .500 in this thread: https://bobcatattack.com/messageboard/topic.asp?FromPage=... .

The predictions are:

25-6 (NCAA tournament)
23-8 (NCAA tournament)
22-11
17-14
24-7 (NCAA tournament)
20-11 (L in MAC Championship Game)
17-14
18-13
20-11
22-9
22-9 (NCAA tournament)

That's an average record of 21-10. With 4 of 11 folks predicting a tournament visit. That's not 500ish.

This team's a big disappointment and to have a coach in his 5th year with the program unable to collect enough talent to be competitive in a very, very bad MAC is pretty inexcusable.

Boals' trendline's very concerning and I suspect it'll get worse before it gets better.

Last Edited: 1/15/2024 10:33:51 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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M.D.W.S.T
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rock Bottom
   Posted: 1/15/2024 10:35:43 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
Is it ROCK BOTTOM if we all predicted a .500 ish record?


I'm not seeing a lot of folks predicting .500 in this thread: https://bobcatattack.com/messageboard/topic.asp?FromPage=... .

The predictions are:

25-6 (NCAA tournament)
23-8 (NCAA tournament)
22-11
17-14
24-7 (NCAA tournament)
20-11 (L in MAC Championship Game)
17-14
18-13
20-11
22-9
22-9 (NCAA tournament)

That's an average record of 21-10. With 4 of 11 folks predicting a tournament visit. That's not 500ish.



Love my fans.


I guess I was just talking about me then.

"I just don't see us winning many games with our 2nd leading rebounder being 6'1". Basement, 16-15. Think they stay above .500 - but there will be growing pains."

Last Edited: 1/15/2024 10:37:06 AM by M.D.W.S.T
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rock Bottom
   Posted: 1/15/2024 10:41:18 AM 
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
Is it ROCK BOTTOM if we all predicted a .500 ish record?


I'm not seeing a lot of folks predicting .500 in this thread: https://bobcatattack.com/messageboard/topic.asp?FromPage=... .

The predictions are:

25-6 (NCAA tournament)
23-8 (NCAA tournament)
22-11
17-14
24-7 (NCAA tournament)
20-11 (L in MAC Championship Game)
17-14
18-13
20-11
22-9
22-9 (NCAA tournament)

That's an average record of 21-10. With 4 of 11 folks predicting a tournament visit. That's not 500ish.



Love my fans.


I guess I was just talking about me then.

"I just don't see us winning many games with our 2nd leading rebounder being 6'1". Basement, 16-15. Think they stay above .500 - but there will be growing pains."


Huge surprise that you can't tell the difference between your own opinion and what everybody else thinks.

Also, here's the first sentence of that post you quoted:

M.D.W.S.T wrote:

20-11 seems bad... I think they at least get to 20 wins, but there is a MASSIVE hole where DW3 was last season.
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