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Topic:  Vic Searls #TheUpgrade (tm)

Topic:  Vic Searls #TheUpgrade (tm)
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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  Vic Searls #TheUpgrade (tm)
   Posted: 11/30/2024 3:01:45 PM 
Damn shame we didn’t have him the previous two years. We would not have dealt with the frustration we had with the big we had coming off the bench the last two seasons. Isn’t it nice to have a guy with his size who can actually run the floor, catch the ball, rebound and understands how to make offensive moves in the post?

Vic Searls #TheUpgrade

Last Edited: 12/1/2024 11:38:19 PM by FearLeon

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vic Searls #TheUpgrade
   Posted: 11/30/2024 3:14:54 PM 
This is basically the definition of confirmation bias.

Searls' PER is lower than Wiz's, his win shares/40 minutes are lower than Wiz's, he somehow fouls more than Wiz, has a worse rebound rate, blocks way fewer shots, and turns the ball over more -- which is a lot, because Wiz turned the ball over on 16% of his possessions.

Searls has been worse than Wiz by basically every statistical measure, a player you literally cannot stop posting about because he was so bad.

He had a good half. No need to use that to make an underhanded dig at a guy no longer with the program. Turn the page, man.

Last Edited: 11/30/2024 3:21:11 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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mid70sbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vic Searls #TheUpgrade
   Posted: 11/30/2024 3:31:51 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:


He had a good half. No need to use that to make an underhanded dig at a guy no longer with the program. Turn the page, man.


Maybe his favorite song is "Living in the Past" by Jethro Tull.
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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vic Searls #TheUpgrade
   Posted: 11/30/2024 3:33:42 PM 
I, too, enjoy a good self-parody.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vic Searls #TheUpgrade
   Posted: 11/30/2024 4:05:25 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
This is basically the definition of confirmation bias.

Searls' PER is lower than Wiz's, his win shares/40 minutes are lower than Wiz's, he somehow fouls more than Wiz, has a worse rebound rate, blocks way fewer shots, and turns the ball over more -- which is a lot, because Wiz turned the ball over on 16% of his possessions.

Searls has been worse than Wiz by basically every statistical measure, a player you literally cannot stop posting about because he was so bad.

He had a good half. No need to use that to make an underhanded dig at a guy no longer with the program. Turn the page, man.


I am not talking about just this half. Searls is a massive upgrade from the bench big we had the last two years. If you can’t see it with basic fundamentals, then I can’t help you. The Whiz apologists will die on this hill forever.

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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FJC31
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vic Searls #TheUpgrade
   Posted: 11/30/2024 4:18:27 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
This is basically the definition of confirmation bias.

Searls' PER is lower than Wiz's, his win shares/40 minutes are lower than Wiz's, he somehow fouls more than Wiz, has a worse rebound rate, blocks way fewer shots, and turns the ball over more -- which is a lot, because Wiz turned the ball over on 16% of his possessions.

Searls has been worse than Wiz by basically every statistical measure, a player you literally cannot stop posting about because he was so bad.

He had a good half. No need to use that to make an underhanded dig at a guy no longer with the program. Turn the page, man.


In his first 8 games as a Bobcat, Wiz had 14 turnovers, Searls also has 14.

Wiz had 23 rebounds. Searls has 31.

Wiz had 1 block, Searls has 2.

Wiz had 2 steals, Searls has 4.

Wiz averaged 5.6ppg (keep in mind 3 of those games were against UC Clermont, Alabama A&M, and EIU)

Searls is averaging 6.8 ppg.

It’s fair to be exhausted by the Wiz hate, but Searls (who isn’t without his flaws, the turnovers are bad) hasn’t been worse statistically to date when you break down the same number of games.

Last Edited: 11/30/2024 4:19:07 PM by FJC31
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vic Searls #TheUpgrade
   Posted: 11/30/2024 4:21:25 PM 
FJC31 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
This is basically the definition of confirmation bias.

Searls' PER is lower than Wiz's, his win shares/40 minutes are lower than Wiz's, he somehow fouls more than Wiz, has a worse rebound rate, blocks way fewer shots, and turns the ball over more -- which is a lot, because Wiz turned the ball over on 16% of his possessions.

Searls has been worse than Wiz by basically every statistical measure, a player you literally cannot stop posting about because he was so bad.

He had a good half. No need to use that to make an underhanded dig at a guy no longer with the program. Turn the page, man.


In his first 8 games as a Bobcat, Wiz had 14 turnovers, Searls also has 14.

Wiz had 23 rebounds. Searls has 31.

Wiz had 1 block, Searls has 2.

Wiz had 2 steals, Searls has 4.

Wiz averaged 5.6ppg (keep in mind 3 of those games were against UC Clermont, Alabama A&M, and EIU)

Searls is averaging 6.8 ppg.

It’s fair to be exhausted by the Wiz hate, but Searls (who isn’t without his flaws, the turnovers are bad) hasn’t been worse statistically to date when you break down the same number of games.


I'm looking at rate stats, which normalize minutes. And advanced stats. Going into today, he was worse by all of the me metrics I outlined relative to Wiz last season. Which is the direct comparison Leon is making.


Here are Wiz's counting stats through 8 games last year:

34 rebounds
7 blocks
0 blocks

That was the output that FearLeon can't seem to stop citing as evidence of an awful basketball player.

How's Searls compare?

Last Edited: 11/30/2024 4:43:48 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vic Searls #TheUpgrade
   Posted: 11/30/2024 4:26:04 PM 
FJC31 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
This is basically the definition of confirmation bias.

Searls' PER is lower than Wiz's, his win shares/40 minutes are lower than Wiz's, he somehow fouls more than Wiz, has a worse rebound rate, blocks way fewer shots, and turns the ball over more -- which is a lot, because Wiz turned the ball over on 16% of his possessions.

Searls has been worse than Wiz by basically every statistical measure, a player you literally cannot stop posting about because he was so bad.

He had a good half. No need to use that to make an underhanded dig at a guy no longer with the program. Turn the page, man.


In his first 8 games as a Bobcat, Wiz had 14 turnovers, Searls also has 14.

Wiz had 23 rebounds. Searls has 31.

Wiz had 1 block, Searls has 2.

Wiz had 2 steals, Searls has 4.

Wiz averaged 5.6ppg (keep in mind 3 of those games were against UC Clermont, Alabama A&M, and EIU)

Searls is averaging 6.8 ppg.

It’s fair to be exhausted by the Wiz hate, but Searls (who isn’t without his flaws, the turnovers are bad) hasn’t been worse statistically to date when you break down the same number of games.



It's intelligent posts like this one from FJC31, why FJC31 was named Special Consultant to the GM on my staff a few weeks back.

http://bobcatattack.com/messageboard/topic.asp?FromPage=2...

Appreciate the insight here FJC31. Especially, pointing out the competition difference also from Searls and The Whiz in their first 8 games as a Bobcat. This will be fun to revisit in March.






#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vic Searls #TheUpgrade
   Posted: 11/30/2024 4:26:23 PM 
FearLeon wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
This is basically the definition of confirmation bias.

Searls' PER is lower than Wiz's, his win shares/40 minutes are lower than Wiz's, he somehow fouls more than Wiz, has a worse rebound rate, blocks way fewer shots, and turns the ball over more -- which is a lot, because Wiz turned the ball over on 16% of his possessions.

Searls has been worse than Wiz by basically every statistical measure, a player you literally cannot stop posting about because he was so bad.

He had a good half. No need to use that to make an underhanded dig at a guy no longer with the program. Turn the page, man.


I am not talking about just this half. Searls is a massive upgrade from the bench big we had the last two years. If you can’t see it with basic fundamentals, then I can’t help you. The Whiz apologists will die on this hill forever.


Wiz apologist? I called the dude bad in the post you're quoting. And referenced actual numbers pointing out ways he was bad.

You're very, very weird about Wiz. And weirder about Izuma. There's plenty of room to recognize a player's flaws without the weirdness.

Seriously, my man, it's time to put down the doll you fashioned out of Wiz's hair clippings and move on. He has. You should, too.

Last Edited: 11/30/2024 4:41:02 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vic Searls #TheUpgrade
   Posted: 11/30/2024 5:12:37 PM 
FearLeon wrote:
This will be fun to revisit in March.


No. No, it will not.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vic Searls #TheUpgrade
   Posted: 11/30/2024 6:04:30 PM 
FearLeon wrote:
This will be fun to revisit in March.


Yes. Yes it will.
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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vic Searls #TheUpgrade
   Posted: 11/30/2024 6:10:31 PM 
I mentioned to more than a couple of BAers in the Convo today how nice it would be to have Vic at Ohio for more than 1 year. He is clearly an upgrade from last year and I wouldn't be too surprised to see him in the starting lineup at one point this season. Finally, without doing too much research (none, actually), I doubt Wiz ever had team highs in points and rebounds at the halftime break like Vic did today.
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mid70sbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vic Searls #TheUpgrade
   Posted: 11/30/2024 9:12:04 PM 
FearLeon wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
This is basically the definition of confirmation bias.

Searls' PER is lower than Wiz's, his win shares/40 minutes are lower than Wiz's, he somehow fouls more than Wiz, has a worse rebound rate, blocks way fewer shots, and turns the ball over more -- which is a lot, because Wiz turned the ball over on 16% of his possessions.

Searls has been worse than Wiz by basically every statistical measure, a player you literally cannot stop posting about because he was so bad.

He had a good half. No need to use that to make an underhanded dig at a guy no longer with the program. Turn the page, man.


I am not talking about just this half. Searls is a massive upgrade from the bench big we had the last two years. If you can’t see it with basic fundamentals, then I can’t help you. The Whiz apologists will die on this hill forever.


So, you prefer an "upgrade" and to be 2-5 after our first 7 games this year versus being 5-2 last year? Okay. I guess I disagree, especially since 4 of our 5 losses this year were to mediocre teams.
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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vic Searls #TheUpgrade
   Posted: 11/30/2024 10:23:10 PM 
bobcatsquared wrote:
FearLeon wrote:
This will be fun to revisit in March.


Yes. Yes it will.


*sobs*

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vic Searls #TheUpgrade
   Posted: 11/30/2024 10:45:01 PM 
JSF wrote:
bobcatsquared wrote:
FearLeon wrote:
This will be fun to revisit in March.


Yes. Yes it will.


*sobs*


*whew* Thankful my post wasn't labeled as some strong copium.
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FJC31
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vic Searls #TheUpgrade
   Posted: 12/1/2024 10:21:02 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
This is basically the definition of confirmation bias.

Searls' PER is lower than Wiz's, his win shares/40 minutes are lower than Wiz's, he somehow fouls more than Wiz, has a worse rebound rate, blocks way fewer shots, and turns the ball over more -- which is a lot, because Wiz turned the ball over on 16% of his possessions.

Searls has been worse than Wiz by basically every statistical measure, a player you literally cannot stop posting about because he was so bad.

He had a good half. No need to use that to make an underhanded dig at a guy no longer with the program. Turn the page, man.


In his first 8 games as a Bobcat, Wiz had 14 turnovers, Searls also has 14.

Wiz had 23 rebounds. Searls has 31.

Wiz had 1 block, Searls has 2.

Wiz had 2 steals, Searls has 4.

Wiz averaged 5.6ppg (keep in mind 3 of those games were against UC Clermont, Alabama A&M, and EIU)

Searls is averaging 6.8 ppg.

It’s fair to be exhausted by the Wiz hate, but Searls (who isn’t without his flaws, the turnovers are bad) hasn’t been worse statistically to date when you break down the same number of games.


I'm looking at rate stats, which normalize minutes. And advanced stats. Going into today, he was worse by all of the me metrics I outlined relative to Wiz last season. Which is the direct comparison Leon is making.


Here are Wiz's counting stats through 8 games last year:

34 rebounds
7 blocks
0 blocks

That was the output that FearLeon can't seem to stop citing as evidence of an awful basketball player.

How's Searls compare?


So, I pulled the 8 game stats of Wiz’s first season from two years ago.

I think that’s the fairest way to compare he and Searls for the time being, since the latter has only played such a small sample size as a Bobcat.

If you’re combining both of Wiz’s seasons to Searls first handful of games, that’s obviously going to paint a different picture.

Last Edited: 12/1/2024 10:23:33 AM by FJC31
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vic Searls #TheUpgrade
   Posted: 12/1/2024 10:37:04 AM 
FJC31 wrote:


So, I pulled the 8 game stats of Wiz’s first season from two years ago.

I think that’s the fairest way to compare he and Searls for the time being, since the latter has only played such a small sample size as a Bobcat.

If you’re combining both of Wiz’s seasons to Searls first handful of games, that’s obviously going to paint a different picture.



I get the thinking, but that's not at all the point FearLeon was making. He calls Searls an upgrade; I must have missed the fine print where that was about an 8 game sample from two years ago.

All I did was look at Wiz's rate stats from last year. There's nothing unfair about that in response to a post stating that Searls is an upgrade over our bench big from last year.

But either way, my point's been made. Wiz, who was so bad that FearLeon won't shut up about it, and Searls, have been quite similar from a production standpoint. I like Searls fine, but just think it's kind of sad and more than a little bit cruel to use Searls as yet another reason to criticize Wiz.

That's all.
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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vic Searls #TheUpgrade
   Posted: 12/1/2024 11:48:18 AM 
Vic is a really solid finisher as we saw yesterday. I haven't seen anything else in his game that makes me ooh and ahh. He struggles to get rid of the ball and I worry MAC teams will watch film and decide to double him when he gets the ball. His rebounding and defense seem fine, as was Wiz.

Do illegal screens count as turnovers?

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

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GraffZ06
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vic Searls #TheUpgrade
   Posted: 12/1/2024 1:37:17 PM 
Andrew Ruck wrote:

Do illegal screens count as turnovers?


Yes. Same as a charge.

Last Edited: 12/1/2024 1:37:41 PM by GraffZ06
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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vic Searls #TheUpgrade
   Posted: 12/1/2024 3:06:20 PM 
Instead of Searls vs Wiz, how about Searls vs a big who can help win a MAC title.

AND...get us into the big dance.

If Searls can do that, then I will call him "The Upgrade" (tm) too.


** The Upgrade (tm) is a registered trademark of FearLeon Inc.
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Bobcat1998
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vic Searls #TheUpgrade
   Posted: 12/2/2024 7:43:52 AM 
I believe that the issue with Wiz was always that some of the people on this board, me included, were so enthralled and so excited at a Lousville recruit coming to us with size. He never lived up to that hype but was a serviceable player. Switch to Searls who came to us after a pretty solid career at Ashland (4-year player, All-League, averaged 15 and 7 senior year) and we hoped he'd be good but because he came from D-2 we didn't put him on a pedestal like many on here died with Wiz. Both players are serviceable. I will say that at times Wiz made plays away from the ball or looked lost way more than Searls does. Searls plays with a purpose and knows his place at all times. That is the main difference in my mind: Court savvy.
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M.D.W.S.T
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vic Searls #TheUpgrade
   Posted: 12/2/2024 9:28:27 AM 
FJC31 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
This is basically the definition of confirmation bias.

Searls' PER is lower than Wiz's, his win shares/40 minutes are lower than Wiz's, he somehow fouls more than Wiz, has a worse rebound rate, blocks way fewer shots, and turns the ball over more -- which is a lot, because Wiz turned the ball over on 16% of his possessions.

Searls has been worse than Wiz by basically every statistical measure, a player you literally cannot stop posting about because he was so bad.

He had a good half. No need to use that to make an underhanded dig at a guy no longer with the program. Turn the page, man.


In his first 8 games as a Bobcat, Wiz had 14 turnovers, Searls also has 14.

Wiz had 23 rebounds. Searls has 31.

Wiz had 1 block, Searls has 2.

Wiz had 2 steals, Searls has 4.

Wiz averaged 5.6ppg (keep in mind 3 of those games were against UC Clermont, Alabama A&M, and EIU)

Searls is averaging 6.8 ppg.

It’s fair to be exhausted by the Wiz hate, but Searls (who isn’t without his flaws, the turnovers are bad) hasn’t been worse statistically to date when you break down the same number of games.


Preciate you.

Wiz is gone and I had doing this all again, but cmon.

Searls has looked better, not just statistically (again, we know turnovers are an issue and not just for him), but floor presence as well. Wiz was 7ft and played like 6'1". Searls is going after rebounds. He's making the most of his time on the floor. He's only played 8 D1 games. He's getting better. That's all any of us asked of Wiz. His per 40 mins splits are very solid. 15/9. Turnovers I expected, the jump from Ashland to OU wasn't going to be immediate.

His last 4 games he's average 9 points and 4 rebounds in 18 mins.

If we posed those stats in the beginning of the season I think EVERYONE would sign up for that 100 times out of 100.
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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vic Searls #TheUpgrade
   Posted: 12/2/2024 12:02:19 PM 
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
This is basically the definition of confirmation bias.

Searls' PER is lower than Wiz's, his win shares/40 minutes are lower than Wiz's, he somehow fouls more than Wiz, has a worse rebound rate, blocks way fewer shots, and turns the ball over more -- which is a lot, because Wiz turned the ball over on 16% of his possessions.

Searls has been worse than Wiz by basically every statistical measure, a player you literally cannot stop posting about because he was so bad.

He had a good half. No need to use that to make an underhanded dig at a guy no longer with the program. Turn the page, man.


In his first 8 games as a Bobcat, Wiz had 14 turnovers, Searls also has 14.

Wiz had 23 rebounds. Searls has 31.

Wiz had 1 block, Searls has 2.

Wiz had 2 steals, Searls has 4.

Wiz averaged 5.6ppg (keep in mind 3 of those games were against UC Clermont, Alabama A&M, and EIU)

Searls is averaging 6.8 ppg.

It’s fair to be exhausted by the Wiz hate, but Searls (who isn’t without his flaws, the turnovers are bad) hasn’t been worse statistically to date when you break down the same number of games.


Preciate you.

Wiz is gone and I had doing this all again, but cmon.

Searls has looked better, not just statistically (again, we know turnovers are an issue and not just for him), but floor presence as well. Wiz was 7ft and played like 6'1". Searls is going after rebounds. He's making the most of his time on the floor. He's only played 8 D1 games. He's getting better. That's all any of us asked of Wiz. His per 40 mins splits are very solid. 15/9. Turnovers I expected, the jump from Ashland to OU wasn't going to be immediate.

His last 4 games he's average 9 points and 4 rebounds in 18 mins.

If we posed those stats in the beginning of the season I think EVERYONE would sign up for that 100 times out of 100.


+1,000,000

And this is why M.D.W.S.T. is the "Big Man Consultant" on my staff.

http://bobcatattack.com/messageboard/topic.asp?FromPage=2...

Just like Bobcat1998, Andrew Ruck, FJC31 and bobcats squared, thy understand the expectations of a bench big. Court savvy, awareness and agility can be spotted immediately in a player and it's all we ask for. #TheUpgrade (tm) has shown this and then some through his first 8 games. Will check back in March 2025 to see how #TheUpgrade (tm) compares to what we had previously after one full season.


Last Edited: 12/2/2024 12:03:07 PM by FearLeon

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vic Searls #TheUpgrade
   Posted: 12/2/2024 12:24:28 PM 
I'm not anti-Searls. I think Searls is a solid offensive big. He finishes pretty well around the basket, and has solid shooting touch. I like some of the things he brings to the team, for sure.

But it's stupid and not at all useful to measure Searls through the lens of how people here perceived Wiz. And it's even less useful when that is based entirely on observation, and numbers aren't accounted for.

Wiz rebounded at a higher rate than Searls does currently. He blocked shots at a higher rate. He scored less, and they both foul people and turn the ball over at a crazy rate. Those aren't my impressions or observations. They're data. Maybe as Searls adapts to D1 basketball, some of those rates will change. But generally a sample of 100+ minutes is pretty predictive for rebound-rate and block rate stats.

To me, based on 8 games, it looks like Searls is a below average rebounder for his position, and doesn't protect the rim. Basically, I think he perpetuates our strengths as a team, and perpetuates our weaknesses as a team. Everybody will insist those numbers will improve, and I hope they do. But rate stats around rebounding and blocks are generally pretty predictive across a sample size like this. Particularly when a guy is playing against both first and second units.

Searls is a solid pick up and a nice "budget" find in the portal. But his weaknesses are also a part of the reason we get destroyed on the boards by basically everybody, and teams shoot crazy well against us. We're currently 303rd in the country in opponent defensive rebound rate, and pacing well-behind where we were last year. We're 269th in defensive efficiency, and well behind where we were last year, too.

Hard to say if that's scheme (it seems our system's similar, but maybe others are seeing something else), personnel, strength of schedule, or what. It's probably a combination of the three.

But feels more than a little bit dumb to post about how massively we've upgraded the 5 when we're a team that's biggest weakness, by far, is lack of rebounding and rim protection, and through 8 games we're in worse shape than last year in both of those categories.









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shabamon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vic Searls #TheUpgrade
   Posted: 12/2/2024 1:02:30 PM 
Numbers don't lie, but there are qualitative aspects that you can only see by watching the game that are important to consider. There's no statistic for rebounds not gained despite getting two hands on the ball. Should we view an illegal screen differently than we view getting the ball stolen from your dribble? I think you can. By high school varsity you should have the hand fundamentals to hold onto the basketball if you get two hands on the ball, especially if you're the biggest guy on the floor. By high school varsity, or earlier, you should have legal screen fundamentals down. These problems proved to be repetitive.

For kicks, here are Vic's turnovers vs Robert Morris

-Held ball on a blocked shot. I thought this was a soft call and the ball came out of his hands.
-Bad dump off pass in the post when he should have completed the shot attempt.
-Defender smacked the ball out of his hands and off Pav on a handoff.
-Off ball offensive foul trying to get position in the post
-Travel

So really, two that were mistakes. I'm more forgiving on the others.
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